E124: Applying Data to Food Quality and Safety with Eric Moore

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In this episode, I share an interview with Eric Moore, Global Director of Food Safety & Industry Outreach at Testo Solutions, where we discuss Food Safety and Quality, Sustainability, and Innovative Data Monitoring.

Eric delves into his extensive 25-year career in food safety, beginning with his education in hospitality at Penn State University and his early career experiences in higher education dining services. He discusses his transition to a full-time food safety professional, highlighting the importance of operational food safety and the various roles he has undertaken. He elaborates on the integration of sustainability efforts, such as composting and reducing food waste within the food industry. He also introduces advanced data monitoring tools, including remote temperature monitoring and rapid pathogen detection systems, that enhance food safety and efficiency.

This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone interested in food safety, food quality, sustainability, and data-driven process improvements.

00:17 Introduction and Guest Background
01:44 Eric Moore’s Career Journey
10:01 Sustainability in Food Safety
20:52 Data Collection and Monitoring Systems
34:28 Innovations in Food Manufacturing
37:33 Conclusion and Contact Information

Listen to the podcast on this page, or watch the entire interview at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqlRetGCxhI

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Transcript

Brion Hurley
Today we’ve got Eric Moore here. Eric is the global director at Testo. Thanks for joining me. Eric, could you give us a little background on your work experience and billing and how you made your way into? Your current role.


Eric Moore
Sure, Brion. Thanks for having me. Hello to the audience. So my name is Eric Moore. I’m the global director of food safety and industry outreach for Testo. We are a sensor and software development company. We specialize in precision sensor based software, quality assurance, data acquisition. Processes as well as very high precision sensor technology in various different. Business units, food being one of those, also pharmaceuticals and the HVAC, gas and power industries. I have been a practicing food safety professional for a little over 25 years. I graduated in 1999 from Penn State University with a degree in hospitality. So I guess I can preface that my area of real expertise and knowledge is around operational food safety. You look at the supply chain in general, right, things start at the agricultural end right at the consumer interaction end. My area of expertise and focus is very close to the consumer interaction piece. So when I say operational, it’s really towards the end of that of that chain. After I graduated, I went right to work. I was very fortunate, had a job before I even graduated from college, working for the world’s largest contract food service management company. I stayed with that. Organization for. 12 years I worked in what is called higher education. So I was in the dining services at a couple different universities. That’s where I started to get a taste of the safety world. Both Occupational Safety and food safety. But it it just clicked with my personality. I think everybody has an ability to want to continue and. Oh, in their career. Or at least I hope to. And that was just an area where I was very intrigued and learning more. I ended up switching roles internally with that organization and relocating from New York City to the Philadelphia area. I started working in their sports and entertainment division. I was there for quite a while. My role as a food service. Manager shifted to being a full time designated Food Safety professor. National I was very fortunate. I had an amazing mentor at the time who really set me on a great pathway to build a really solid foundation of understanding the regulations that businesses need to operate under, but also understanding how to interact with employees. Which is huge, especially in roles like that, because the old saying you’re only as strong as your weakest. Link that is. Completely true when you’re trying to manage whether it’s food safety or even just manage processes in large scale catered events. When I say large scale like very large scale 10,000 person, it was pretty amazing. I got to support the 2004 Summer Olympics and it was really quite amazing. You learn a lot about people, you learn a.


Brion Hurley
Oh wow.


Eric Moore
Lot about process. And something that I’ve always had as part of how I work is trying to and I never made the connection until later in my career of how it relates to say like 6 Sigma or lean processes. But I was always trying to quote UN quote engineer. Or. The system, so it was a little easier for people to do because to me in those situations it made a lot of sense to make their jobs easier for them to execute. That made my job easier. It was a self-serving thing to do in my mind, but it really helped along the way. I took on that role. And then after the Olympics, I ended up changing companies and taking on a larger role where I was not just overseeing food safety at one large facility. I was supporting a corporate food safety program for the whole Mid-Atlantic region. So then I was able to take a lot of the skills that I acquired in communicating with employees and making things easier for people to execute and start to apply them to writing standards and policies, keeping that core level of engineering problems or risk. Out of the system and applying that in a larger scale, that’s also when I started to dabble with what at the time was cutting edge temperature measurement technology, right, these big clunky electronic thermometers. And they could do a little bit of data recording. And then being able to run reports and and things like that. I stayed in that role for several years and then was recruited to go back to the company that I worked for right out of college to help rewrite their global food safety policy. That was a 3 1/2 year long project that was. Really quite amazing through all of these position changes, I continued to apply that same logic. How can we make this easier? How can we make things more streamlined? I always have in the back of my head to engineer risks or problems out of the. Process.


Brion Hurley
Because I would guess. Oh maybe he had an engineering degree or something. Period.


Eric Moore
Honestly, honestly, I think a lot of it was self driven motivation to learn and stay abreast of the neat new devices that I might be able to test, and fortunately, some of the companies that I was working at, they were also being approached by thermometer. Manufacturers or other equipment manufacturers? For for input and feedback in the development of their devices, I was able to get involved in conversations like oh, you know what? I tried using this and it’s really nice. It’s great, but it’d be really good if we could do this. So it was this grassroots way of getting into into gaining some experience in how to use. Data to your advantage from a time when it was just using Excel, creating some sort of basic pie chart or or bar graph in stepping things up into more advanced area. Is and now there’s. I don’t even know how some of this stuff works. It’s gotten so far down the developmental pipeline, but I was just really fortunate and I think part of the really interesting thing, at least looking back in retrospect is. That hospitality degree, they do a lot of education on spending time, how you actually. Talk to individuals, right, whether it’s customers or employees or managing up, they spend a decent amount of time trying to make sure or at least they did when I was there of giving you an idea of how to execute those conversations. I think that played a big role in being able to be successful over time. In each career move as my role or responsibility grew, I was always interacting with various levels of employees. Each employee group needs or wants to hear something in a little bit of a different fashion. Whether you’re talking to an IT department where they literally just. Want just tell me what you need from me or up to the regional manager or Vice president, CEO. They want to know even less and they just want to know what it’s going to cost or what it’s going to save, being able to actually share that information in the appropriate manner with the audience. I think it has been pretty useful. That, and the fact that also being able to take regulatory codified. Information and translate that into layman terms has been a huge feather in my cap over the years. Trying to read the FDA food code or parts of the Code of Federal regulation can be quite daunting for somebody that can read it, understand the requirements and then say this is what. We have to do, and here’s the actions we need to implement to make that change. He’s been a. Big benefit through all. Those roles I was gaining, acquiring and applying various different skills. In all of that, eight years ago led to me joining Testo where it was actually out of the blue at the time I worked for the startup, I was the second employee hired for my industry. Understanding the people that I knew, the different organizations and at regulatory bodies. Federally and locally, and being able to help create pathways for understanding in. This new technology eight years ago with digital food safety management system was still pretty new to the industry and it still is today. The adoption rate is still quite slow for various reasons. I think we might even talk about here in a minute, but being able to. Provide. Paid a vote of confidence in conversations, whether it’s with regulators or industry peers, software going to do for us. Why should I change and being able to provide some of those benefit statements based on background and experience I think has been really useful. For him.


Brion Hurley
Yeah, that’s great. Couple things came to mind that I wanted to go into where we jump into some of the data tools and monitoring. 1st when you were working on campus, in order sustainability in that discussion at that time was that was that something that students were asking for?


Eric Moore
I think sustainability wasn’t a huge push at the time. There were pushes around. Actively reducing unnecessary food waste. The activities then were different. Still important now, right? But given how technology has changed in. Almost 25 years, the ability to expand how a company can focus on unnecessary food waste has drastically improved. When I was still working at a university and this went up through some of my corporate roles too, the focus was on. Proper training of kitchen employees. Culinary teams, right. What’s the right place to stop cutting a carrot or pieces of celery so you maximize the usage and decrease unnecessary waste going into landfills. There was a tremendous amount of focus. On that, if you can adequately train your employees on how to quickly and effectively cut a watermelon where all you’re taking is ruined, right, that’s a big difference between you’re just like. Having it whimsically right and leaving a lot of the fruit still attached to the line, you’re just generating waste and part of the cool thing was along with the culinary teams that were in place at the time, we were able to start generating cost saving. Numbers, right? Because if you let somebody just work in untrained unskilled. Person and they’re wasting 2/3 or like an inch and a half of the end of a carrot or celery and you have them start to put that in a container. You weigh that and then you can translate that into OK, if this trash bin weighs 10 lbs and that 10 lbs. Is going to cost me $10 to haul to the garbage site if now I’ve trained you and you’ve reduced the weight of that container to 6 lbs or 5 lbs. You’ve reduced your waste hauling costs, right, and that helped get everybody’s brain going. Ohh, that’s a way for us to save money and return money to the P&L and that makes everybody happy right at the end of the day.


Brion Hurley
Was there composting? Was that an option at the?


Eric Moore
Time that really came along later. I was really working in the dining halls, but composting absolutely did come along when I worked for a regional grocery store chain in the Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland. Area I just saw the enormous amount of food waste we had, so I started a composting program over a five year period. We diverted something like 400 metric tons of food waste when I was trying to figure out what we could do, I evaluated composting in comparison to. The food being reengineered into into animal. Lead, right? You have to be a little bit more Cognizant. There’s more employee engagement because it’s not just every single food scrap that can go in a trash can. It’s vegetables, fruits, cheeses, egg shells, because it was all getting turned back into cattle and swine feed. You can’t. Which beef scraps, right? That or bone in there. So I actually also started up program to try to capture that waste as well, so that whether it’s beef fat, they can get melted down or beef bones, they can get repurposed for chew toys or whatever. We started a program for that as well. And there’s a lot of metrics there, a top like lots and lots of metrics that can be measured there and that was wildly successful. And as far as I know, it’s actually still in place today.


Brion Hurley
I was part of a green team that my biggest company working with cafeteria services and trying to figure out what are some of those options and food waste was a discussion and. Tracking and weighing that, I think that was something you had in place. We were trying to figure out what could.


Eric Moore
Yeah.


Brion Hurley
We do with. That data to see if there’s opportunity to see what are the highest weighted items that are coming in there? And so I found that pretty interesting and and we were trying to set up composting.


Eric Moore
For sure.


Brion Hurley
And. Reusable plates and some things like that. So that’s reminding me of some.


Eric Moore
Yeah, yeah.


Brion Hurley
Of that or what?


Eric Moore
You know, it’s several universities, I’m certain they’re probably still going on instead of purchasing commonly grown herbs, they were starting to grow their own. They would use a building roof to grow like certain volumes of some like fast growing vegetables that they would use in their cafeteria, right? If you’re not ordering from your food vendor, you’re taking those greenhouse gases out of the system. There were activities that were going on relative to that too. But it a little harder to put numbers around. And when you’re using a broadline distribution partner and you can’t really collect permissions, data and things like that.


Brion Hurley
Where they may think about reusable containers. Want people to bring coffee cups to? Their favorite coffee shop, but there was always that risk of what if it’s not clean and someone’s handling it? Did that come up in some of the efforts, which was the right thing to do, but the risk to safety or?


Eric Moore
Ready disease. There’s a group called the Conference for Food Protection that meets every two years. The meeting is in two weeks in Denver. That is an area where industry regulatory bodies, both state and federal academics and consumers, get to come together and propose new parts of the food code. What is proposed then gets evaluated and whether or not the FDA will adopt it and reusable containers actually was. A very hot topic and it has been for like the last four. So it was actually formally introduced into the Food code 2 years ago. Some forward thinking large organizations had already started moving forward with that, especially universities. When you bring universities up, they’re typically at the tip of the spear, especially around sustainability. Green. Houses, gas reduction, reusables recyclables, compostables like all of those things, it’s usually a very good audience to communicate with. But when you start to factor it out, like in your example with a coffee shop, or if you even think of reusable bags at a grocery store, there does become. Questions around could that container lead to some sort of issue right where it becomes the vector of something that gets spread to many other people? There are ways that you can put policies or processes in. In place, maybe you have a favorite pub or bar or coffee shop that has a mug club. You’re reusing a mug, but they maintain their responsibility of storing it. They also clean and sanitize it before it then gets reused. There are ways that you can create policies or procedures. Around that, if I were to go into whatever coffee shop and I said, hey, can you put my coffee in this? And they’ll say absolutely yes, especially if it’s not a self-service place like a gas. Where they’ll actually take it, clean it right in front of you, just like you’re getting a drink at a bar. They’ll just wash, rinse, sanitize your travel mug, and then put your coffee in. It becomes an organizational question of do we have the equipment in place already to do that? If we do, let’s get some employee. Feedback if they’re OK doing that, or is this going to get on our employees nerve? And then that could actually have a negative impact on customer interactions. But it really goes positively. Then we’ll build a policy around that and absolutely let’s do it some successful examples of that. And again, I’ll go back to the university dining scenarios is the use of food safe plastic containers for take away. Meals at a cafeteria, what happens is they have a bulk inventory. You get your food, it’s in a take away container, and you go to your dorm room. Whatever your class, and you have your lunch. The next time that you go, you drop that off. For them to clean and sanitize it so they have an ongoing inventory of these things, Rick, it’s a little bit more tricky is when you try to think through the grocery store example like reusing your own bags, that’s pretty challenging other than pushing customers to do that and communicating. That hey, you should really clean these. That’s really the user’s level of responsibility for some people, because those bags can get pretty grody, especially when you’re talking about raw animal meats being in there and then getting reused for bags of leafy greens. Or whatever. But that responsibility really falls on the consumer that wants to do that. So it’s a slippery slope, but there are absolute solutions that are feasible and able to get worked into businesses.


Brion Hurley
Yeah, I think that was some of the discussion with what is the rules, what is the data around it, where is the risk and what’s the potential benefits and the trade off.


Eric Moore
Yeah.


Brion Hurley
And sometimes it’s hard to make that call and say it’s always safer to do the we’ll go the disposable route sometimes the impact you could have when you make some of these changes can be pretty big to.


Eric Moore
When you’re a coffee shop that has 50,000 stores across the world, those are big numbers, right? Even if you’re talking about compostable cups and compostable sleeves and bamboo lids, those are still big numbers when you look at environmental impact for sure.


Brion Hurley
You mentioned earlier was around data collection system. I think that will transition this nicely into your well, my first introduction. To the data monitoring tools that might be tied in was we had a freezer and we would hold our cheeses for manufacturing in this freezer to keep it frozen. And there’s a power outage.


Eric Moore
Oh.


Brion Hurley
And what happens is they didn’t know that. So power goes out. Freezer starts unthaw, power comes back on refreezes. And for a certain amount of time, we didn’t. Though. That adhesive was not being kept at the right temperature. To avoid that risk or to know what is the data. How long was it down? What did the temperature changes look like they put in these little monitors and this is probably 20 years ago. They had a way to data log that. So if there was a concern they could pull that.

Look at the data and say oh it. Didn’t really drop that much. OK, that material is fine. Without that, they basically said throw it all out because we don’t know if it’s been compromised. And so that was a lot of wasted cost build those monitors got put in. That was where I first saw the ability to use this as a full mechanism, get insights into what’s going on when you’re not physically there or something happens and you can probably say that’s not a problem or yes, it is a problem.


Eric Moore
That is an absolute textbook scenario. That is, the value statement of remote temperature mono. During for the entire food supply system, and obviously there are other sectors in the manufacturing world where it applies to. It’s a big deal in pharmaceuticals, so much that it’s actually codified in the law in CFR. I think it’s part 11 for the manufacture of temperature sensitive pharmaceuticals. For in the food industry. It’s not codified to that extent. It’s not part of CFR, at least in the Food service world. In food manufacturing, it is part of good manufacturing that you do have monitoring capabilities in devices, but what has really changed and I think your example speaks to this is traditionally or historically. There were these devices that. Were basically just thermometers that would have a display on the outside of a refrigerator or walking. Whatever would have you in like your member in places where I work, they have this paper dial that have a little pen that would just go around and that’s the data that it was recording and that’s how you would go back and look like, OK. Did anything happen over the weekend? Let me go get that piece of. That’s the same. Sort of process that was done and still is done in the majority of food service establishments, but instead of using like this, dial automated like temperature graph like a seismograph type of thing. People just write down things on a log sheet to your point exactly what if you’re closed. For a holiday or for the weekend and don’t know if there’s a temperature. Fluctuation the cost of the technology that enables real time or close to real time data or information or invisibility into what’s going on in temperature monitoring. Stationary equipment is drastically dropped, which should be of no surprise. But that opens up the opportunities right in the food retail sector like the grocery store, a fast food restaurant or in institutional food service like a university. These devices, they run 24/7 365, so it doesn’t matter if your establishment is closed. And now the software that is. Aggregating the data that they’re capturing. Right. It actually can be programmed in a way that you establish what we classify as critical limits or limit deviations, where if it gets too cold, I want to know and if it gets too warm, I want to know because those two scenarios have different impacts. It gets too warm in its food. Maybe that is going to create some sort of food safety problem. Also, it could very well impact the product quality. Whatever is in that. If something gets too cold, it’s the same thing around food quality. You don’t want to freeze lettuce because then when it thaws, it’s all right. It’s all soft and limp and yuck, right? But. If your refrigeration units go way below where they’re supposed to be set, you’re just throwing money out the window. Right in, you’re wasting energy, which leads to cost waste, right, which leads to overuse of power, right, which feeds into the sustainability efforts. Right. You have this optimal range that you can have your refrigeration equipment set if you want to operate within that range. Say plus or minus a couple degrees. When there’s a food safety problem, you want to know when there’s a potential energy usage or product issue. You also want to know a lot of the opportunity for optimizing storage conditions to drive unnecessary food waste. What is the optimal storage environment for? Ice cream right now that could actually already be identified by the ice cream manufacturer. Or are we just going to set all my freezers at -15° that might be completely unnecessary. Companies can have discussions. OK. XYZ ice cream manufacturer what’s your recommended storage condition for optimum quality? That’s where you start and then you bring in your facility team to say, OK, the operating parameters of this piece of equipment are what? So we need to merge the product quality component and the equipment. Functionality. Piece and then that is the recipe for success in that area of optimal use or run pretty interesting because through all of my past experience, part of the mindset is if the cooler feels warm, turn it down, just go to the thermostat, turn it down. There isn’t a lot of thought, especially by culinary. professionals.

The potential long term ramifications on product quality, but also how their electric bill is going to drastically differ right? The same thing can be applied for hot food too. It’s the same mindset. If I’m an employee on a hot food line, I’m just going to turn this heater up to 10. What happens at the end of the lunch period, all the food that you’re holding at 198°. It’s continued cooking after it came out of the oven and it’s ruined, so it can’t get reused for something else. It can’t get diverted to some sort of to some sort of program. Like feeding America or something like that because it’s trash. It’s just all gross. So I get a little spirited sometimes about some of this stuff. It’s an impassioned role that all of us play.


Brion Hurley
And I think you mentioned an example to it. Some way of correlating the data. So what’s the actual temperature of the product seeing versus what the monitoring thing?

Eric Moore
Yeah, there aren’t very many products that are capable of doing this on the market today. I’m sure that will change over. Time. So we at Testa, we have, we just launched I say just launched the products been on the market for a little over a year or so, but we have what we call a product simulation. Data logger where we will work with the customer. It’s completely programmable and customizable. The focus of it is to apply a actual set of data based on. Real actual product temperature in the customers equipment. So it’s in their walk in refrigerator in their cooler and it’s their product, right? So whatever that might be shredded lettuce, tomatoes, Turkey, whatever, we gather data for five days and we do that to then. Take all of that data, and depending on the communication frequency, it can be like 20,000 different data points. We dumped that into this proprietary software code that we have. What it does is it correlates or. It provides us with what we call an offset coefficient. So the software where we are programming are high and low critical limits for the data logger we can. Also program this offset coefficient so when it gets installed into a walk in or whatever refrigeration unit. It is monitoring air temperature. It it is providing simulated internal product temperature data at the exact same time based on the test we performed with the customer, the value being right like when you open a refrigerator door, especially a single door cooler you would see. Right behind the service line, the air temperature in those units fluctuates drastically right in a walk in refrigerator, the air temperature inside the unit fluctuates, but not as drastically. The curves flatten a little bit, but what happens in a large majority of establishments is. Doors get opened and they get propped open when it deliveries here and that delivery, it could take 40 minutes. It could. Take 5 minutes. Who knows, right? But those temperatures all begin to fluctuate, and if the organization is only monitoring air temperature that air temperatures drastically going to increase. The alarms are just going to. Going berserk, the value of this simulated product temperature is to show OK if your air temperature has jumped from 38° to 58°, your product temperature was 37.5° it’s 36, so there’s no need for action and part of what we do with this. Study is try to abuse the product so we can help them set adequate alarms and action points based on real potential. Risks as opposed to OK, this alarm is telling me that the coolers at 55° that’s fine. The air temperature is 55°. Everything inside of it is at 32. There’s nothing that you need to do. It’s really quite exciting. It’s pretty amazing.


Brion Hurley
And that could prevent alarms and say we have to get rid of it.


Eric Moore
Precisely.


Brion Hurley
But they know we have some evidence or science behind the idea that it’s.


Eric Moore
OK. Precisely. And what we like to call the unnecessary alarms is alarm fatigue. Right? Because what happens is that door gets opened for 10 minutes, the air spikes up and alarm happens. And then that alarm repeats. If the door stays open, it repeats. And then the employees get conditioned to ignore. I worked at places where they had audible alarms. They would. Just cut the wires. Or into one place there was a little red blinky light that would go off. They just disconnected the wires because it was annoying. I know nothing’s wrong. This thing just keeps going off. That’s the machine doing what it’s programmed to do. It wasn’t programmed well. To provide awareness or a point of action when appropriate, and that’s where a lot of like our focus point now is, especially my focal point is around educating people around the value that can provide like how much time can that potentially save your organization and how much effort. If you have a three hour power loss due to snowstorm or a hurricane, even during power losses, this isn’t like just for our devices. I would say just about every device that’s on the market today, it’s gonna have some sort of short term memory backup. They’re probably battery operated like ours when the system is back up, there’s a data dump. Because the data loggers don’t stop recording, it’s just the communication between the data logger and whether it’s a gateway or depending on how the system operates. If it’s a Wi-Fi data log or whatever, when that data is dumped, then boom, that’s the beauty of cloud based computing, right? Like the data is there, you can go back and look at it. And it also gives you evidence that say there was a regulatory inspection going on or you’re communicating to a local health department like hey. We had a power loss. I’ve got data that all of our refrigerator, the products inside of them all stayed fine, and that’s a pretty quick conversation as opposed to, oh, I don’t know. And having done this in grocery stores, going through a power loss and having to walk through the grocery store taking. Product temperatures in each individual case. Of open air coolers to say, OK, we need to get rid of all of this product or we don’t. That’s a massive time and cost saving and unnecessary food waste savings. It’s pretty cool. We have one new product entering the market over the next six months and it actually does focus on. The food manufacturing end of the spectrum, the impact is huge. There’s a lot of research, a lot of R&D, not just with Testo, but with other organizations around rapid pathogen detection systems. We are going to be introducing one of these systems into the market that is able to do surface swab analysis in under 5 hours. The value to that, and I think it leans well into the whole efficiency conversation, is many food manufacturing organizations. It depends on the product or the commodity, but they do what’s called test and hold. They’ll do a production run of something. And then all of that is packaged, boxed up palletized and it goes into the massive 30,000 square foot refrigerator. Then they do swabs. They might actually test product, they’ll do a breakdown and a cleaning after a lock code run. The vast majority of food manufacturers to send those swabs out for analysis to get the results. That can take up between 3:00 to 5:00 dates to get the results back. If you can reduce that feedback loop, how that impacts the supply chain. It’s pretty impactful, right, because if it’s a fresh produce, you’re able to extend shelf life, get higher quality products to your customers, which is all great, right? And you’re not blocking up your storage space in your operation for unnecessary periods of time. There’s a lot going on. With that type of technology, but it’s really quite exciting and I think the potential impact it can have. As it becomes a real thing in the industry, this enhanced rapid surface microbial testing, I think these supply chain delays in time, they will start to shorten, which is fantastic because I’m sure there are ways to do huge environmental studies that would show the benefits of all of that. The major benefit is you’re able to deliver better quality, safer food to your customers faster. And that’s really the name of the game and food manufacturing.

Brion Hurley
Identification of issue and communicating that out faster.

Eric Moore
Hugely important. It’s an exciting time in the food space. There are so many developments taking place. It really is exciting to be, you know, in the industry and I feel super privileged with the fact that I’m part of a technology organization that is trying to focus on some of these like super big. Like challenges? They can show or provide companies with data and information on how they can operate better, operate more efficiently in a more sustainable manner. I think it’s a lot of fun. It’s super cool.


Brion Hurley
How could people get ahold of you? We connected through LinkedIn. Is that the best approach?


Eric Moore
LinkedIn. I guess I could provide my e-mail address and phone number.

Brion Hurley
I’ll get that and put it. In the notes for the so people have OK.


Eric Moore
Right. It’s been awesome, man. I appreciate the invite. Yeah, my pleasure.


Brion Hurley
Yeah. Thanks for your time. Yeah, we’ll put all that contact information for you and links and yeah, appreciate your time and thanks for educating us on. All of that. This stuff coming out.


Eric Moore
My pleasure. OK. All right, take care.

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